My guest for today’s episode is Charles Hicks and the last time we had him on was right after he ran 2:04:35 at the Boston Marathon. A lot has happened since then. His wife graduated law school. They got married. They went on a honeymoon. And then Charles moved out to Park City, Utah, to train at altitude for the first time in his career — no tent, no simulated environment, just real air at real elevation — for what will be his third marathon in less than a year.

That third marathon is the Chicago Marathon, and Charles is going into it with a specific goal he’s been comfortable saying out loud: he finished second American in New York, second American in Boston, and now he wants to be first American in Chicago. The American record conversation is happening around him — Clayton Young has called his shot publicly — but Charles’s approach to it is characteristically his own. Beat the guy next to you. Let the record follow if it’s going to.

In this conversation, he takes us through how Chicago has been on the plan since a text thread in 2024 where he and Jerry mapped out New York, Boston, Chicago in sequence; we get into some of his training and what organic altitude training has taught him about pacing discipline that sea-level training couldn’t and much more. He’s one of the most philosophical marathoners you’ll find.

Discussed in this episode:

– Organic altitude — why no tent in Park City
– What altitude training actually teaches you
– The timeline from Boston to Chicago
– The goal for Chicago — first American, not the American record
– “Anchor” versus “ceiling” — a key distinction
– The mileage log for this block
– Daisy-chaining — the philosophy behind the continuous training
– The earache that set up the best workout of his career
– What the taper feels like after 125-130 mile weeks
– The Vinny Mauri subplot
– The track work
– Training alongside Cole Sprout and Kieran Tuntivate
– The brain podcast on solo easy runs
– Race day logistics
+ More