My guest for today’s episode is Vince Ciattei — U.S. 5000m champion. At 31 years old, roughly 24 hours after losing the 1500m final by five hundredths of a second, Vince went back out at Icahn Stadium and won the 5K national title in 13:46.75 — an event he had raced once in the previous five years. It was the first national title of his career, and it came after a run of fourths, thirds, and seconds that have stretched across nearly a decade as a professional.

Vince trains with Under Armour Dark Sky Distance in Flagstaff under Stephen Haas. He went to Virginia Tech, where he only became good enough to go pro in his fifth year. He came back from an injury straight away as a pro.

He finished fourth at the 2024 Olympic Trials by a quarter of a second and has been on the edge of breaking through internationally for years, and this year it finally started to crack open — a 3:30 personal best in Rabat behind Yared Nuguse, Isaac Nader, and Azeddine Habz, a Diamond League schedule that treated him as a competitor rather than a time-trialer, a 13:13 at Payton Jordan in May, and then a weekend in New York where he went from reading a LetsRun writeup at 4 a.m. declaring he had missed his best shot to standing on top of the podium less than twelve hours later.

In this conversation we get into all of it: The sports psychologist who helped him reframe a decade of near-misses as a trajectory rather than a verdict; The 24-hour turnaround between the two finals and what it took to flip the switch — including the middle-of-the-night LetsRun read, the drug testing chat with his mom afterward, and the moment when Kasey Knevelbaard came by with 250 to go and the race turned into a Dark Sky one-two.

We also get into what Rabat and Ostrava showed him about where he actually stands internationally, the Diamond League final, the World Ultimate Championships, and the target that’s been quietly driving his entire season: the World Road Running Championships mile in September, where he’ll wear the Team USA uniform for the first time.